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Hofstadter's Strange Loop



Uploaded by: redliterocket4
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Does Hofstadter explain consciousness away, or not?


Tags for this video: brain cognition consciousness embodiment hofstadter loop mind philosophy science strange symbols

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So to say that two ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
So to say that two unconscious processes (sensory input and pattern recognition/representation) are the fundamental parts of the mind is to ignore that no such thing as sensory input can be said to exist. The brain has a certain neural structure, the eye's for instance receive light not as a finished product ready to be projected onto the visual cortex, but as a chaos of photon energies.
The rods and cones ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
The rods and cones structure that energy in terms of their own evolutionary design, which has always been structurally coupled to that "outer" energy. So there is no input, there is only a relationship between two sides of a membrane which, paradoxically, contains them both.
The embodied mind ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
The embodied mind has senses that are structurally coupled to the world, so it does not need to represent that world with some kind of internal pattern, symboling, language of thought, or representation. Our ability to conceptualize is a product of the structure of our sensorimotor system. We use the same visual topography in the occipital lobe that allows us to navigate a room to develop conceptual metaphors in order to think about and solve abstract philosophical problems.
Never along the way ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
Never along the way is there any gap, and so never does any pattern recognition or representation become necessary.
This is a complete ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
This is a complete paradox, of course. Because if there is no representation going on, then there is no "I" or "me" in here anywhere. There isn't even the illusion of one. There is only a word. A symbol we use to convey a feeling we have that keeps us going on talkng to ourselves, doing the whole "I think, therefore I am" thing that Descartes invented. If we stop thinking, or talking to ourselves, we no longer exist as "I"!
"So to say that two ... ( 1 year ago by ibreakkidslegs)
"So to say that two unconscious processes (sensory input and pattern recognition/representation) are the fundamental parts of the mind is to ignore that no such thing as sensory input can be said to exist."
True. However, whether the input exists or not, processing of some sort is still taking place is it not?
yes, a process is ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
yes, a process is occuring. but i cannot say what that process is made of. it takes various forms depending on which way I want to break it apart. what kind of symbols do I want to use to represent what is there? how many neurons does it take to make the word "truth"? Is it a different number in your brain? Do the connections change each time we use the word?
the process taking ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
the process taking place is us having this conversation right now, along with everything in the background of it (the rooms we are in, the books we have read, the families we have grown up in, what we had for dinner, etc etc etc). We can draw pretty maps of the territory in books and blackboards, but we can only ever be explorers of the mind in reality. the process is ongoing, and to the extent that we are awake, we willingly participate.
this cannot be ... ( 1 year ago by ibreakkidslegs)
this cannot be adequately discussed without us both being versed in physics theories on the brain and consciousness. are you familiar with Roger Penrose's hypothesis that consciousness is a result of hte brain's molecular abililty to harbour the computing powers made possible by quantum superposition?
not that drawing ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
not that drawing maps isn't a blast, too. I just try to be sure I don't forget to enjoy the ride. It isn't the end I am most concerned about. In fact, reaching a conclusion is the worst part, because then you're stuck. You've got to find a new ride!
also, google up " ... ( 1 year ago by ibreakkidslegs)
also, google up "the universe as a hologram". It basically explains how quantum physics may be holographic in nature, and therefore also our minds. Which would explain the non-localization of memory in the brain
Alan Wallace just ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
Alan Wallace just released a new book which he hopes will bring physics and consciousness together. I've read about Penrose, you should read about Wallace: "Bridging the gap between the world of science and the realm of the spiritual, B. Alan Wallace introduces a natural theory of human consciousness that has its roots in contemporary physics and Buddhism.
Wallace's "special ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
Wallace's "special theory of ontological relativity" suggests that mental phenomena are conditioned by the brain, but do not emerge from it. Rather, the entire natural world of mind and matter, subjects and objects, arises from a unitary dimension of reality that is more fundamental than these dualities, as proposed by Wolfgang Pauli and Carl Jung.
To test his ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
To test his hypothesis, Wallace employs the Buddhist meditative practice of samatha , refining one's attention and metacognition, to create a kind of telescope to examine the space of the mind. Drawing on the work of the physicist John Wheeler, he then proposes a more general theory in which the participatory nature of reality is envisioned as a self-excited circuit.
In comparing these ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
In comparing these ideas to the Buddhist theory known as the Middle Way philosophy, Wallace explores further aspects of his "general theory of ontological relativity," which can be investigated by means of vipasyana , or insight, meditation. Wallace then focuses on the theme of symmetry in reference to quantum cosmology and the "problem of frozen time," relating these issues to the theory and practices of the Great Perfection school of Tibetan Buddhism.
He concludes with a ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
He concludes with a discussion of the general theme of complementarity as it relates to science and religion. The theories of relativity and quantum mechanics were major achievements in the physical sciences, andthe theory of evolution has had an equally deep impact on the life sciences. However, rigorous scientific methods do not yet exist to observe mental phenomena, and naturalism has its limits for shedding light on the workings of the mind.
A pioneer of modern ... ( 1 year ago by redliterocket4)
A pioneer of modern consciousness research, Wallace offers a practical and revolutionary method for exploring the mind that combines the keenest insights of contemporary physicists and philosophers with the time-honored meditative traditions of Buddhism.
another form of ... ( 1 year ago by zarxo)
another form of logic is this: to be perceived is to exist
language plays a ... ( 8 months ago by ThEpErsOnLiGHts)
language plays a big part in thinking and understanding, we have 26 letters to try and decode the universe with, we know knowledge can get lost in translation, is it possible to think outside of language, is it our computerized program to sink or swim with, who are we
I agree that that ... ( 7 months ago by isotropic)
I agree that that question is the most important one about Hofstadter.
Wow. Very clever ... ( 3 months ago by DURound)
Wow. Very clever commentary. Favorited
i think you're lost ... ( 1 month ago by lemottes)
i think you're lost in space.
Not sure if this ... ( 1 month ago by wbrinegar)
Not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but when Hofstadter presents the ability of organisms to perceive/categorize, he's talking about differences between humans and organisms like mosquitoes, a distinction he makes clear in the book many times. He never suggests that some individuals have "fuller" or more realized "souls" because they happen to be smarter. And when you say "What role does the heart play?," you're missing the gist of what Hofstadter attempts to get at in the book.
Hofstadter isn't a ... ( 2 weeks ago by devourerofbabies)
Hofstadter isn't a mind body dualist, I think he means something like the mind is a process that runs the substrate of the brain. The human brain is a sufficient condition for a mind to run on, but not a necessary one.



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